Beijing 2008 Heroes Return:

[rainbow]

Well here goes with my first composition ever!!! ... inspired by KPR's My Orchestra collection and Hollow Sun's Chinese freepack and encouraging comments from Klaus & Rob ... a little ditty in the spirit of the Olympic ideal in celebration of all the returning Olympic Heroes of all nations:

www.4shared.com/file/60781727/ab41764a/Beijing_2008_Heros_Return.html

Recorded on just 2 stereo tracks of the Boss BR1200CD stand-alone recorder using Alesis Fusion 6HD + Korg Karma ... mixed & mastered onboard ... no computers were used or harmed in this production ... Steve would approve

Fusion Sounds: Hollow Sun Chinese Percussion freepack + Hollow Sun freepack2 + KPR My Orchestra (Oriental Orchestra) & (Heroic Horns)
Karma Sounds: Shogun & Grecian 2001

Any comments appreciated ... old muso in training ;D ;D

Best regards ... Rainbow

[mickydireland]

Wow Graham! That was cool! I like the build up to middle section, then bang! Arps everywhere! Very good fella! Has that Vangelis feel about it as well. I can see that being used during those open top bus celebrations.
Micky!

[rainbow]

Cripes Micky that was a quick reply ... I'd barely finished posting!! Thanks for the encouraging comments mate ... the Arps are where the Karma shines ... tricky bit is controlling them.
Cheers ... Graham:)

[christianrock]

That is brilliant, Graham!!! I really enjoyed it, you already sound like a pro on your first composition, wow!

[kpr]

Indeed this is a kind of smash hit and the dramatics especially starting around 2:20 is fantastic! Interesting harmony modulations too. Do you have a myspace page, Graham? Would be quite suitable to share this with more listeners.

Cheers

Klaus

[lildave]

Very nice. Everything blended well. I can see myself at the olympics.

[rainbow]

Thank you very much to christian, kpr and lildave for further encouraging words ... believe me they are appreciated ;D ;D ;D
Klaus, I'm bowled over ... I'll look into the myspace idea further ... could be fun

Cheers ... Graham

[Hollow Sun]

Rainbow,

I loved your piece - grand opening, loved the breakdown into shakuhachi and the build up to the rhythmic section which had a further twist with those lovely chord progressions. Kinda felt it fizzled out a bit towards the end though I thought. But great use of the Chinese percussion freepack not to mention the Tibetan freepack (the haunting Rkang Glings - great to hear those in action) and KPR's orchestral pack. Great use of Karma too.

However, I really didn't like that big, brash unison brass immediately after the shakuhachi section - it was jarring and I thought unnecessary. It also meant some endless repetition of the theme which detracted from the effectiveness of the theme. I didn't like the sound much either.

As such, I took the liberty of snipping that section out which you can listen to here:

www.hollowsun.com/beijing/Beijing_Heroes_Edit.mp3

Please understand - no criticism intended. It's a great piece (that wouldn't have been out of place at the actual opening ceremony ... seriously!) but that section didn't do it for me and the piece kinda meandered aimlessly for a while, repeating that theme over and over again before hitting the majestic and powerful rhythmic section ... which I think should appear sooner.

In this edit, I have also added an overall 'large stadium' reverb to give the effect of it being played in the big Beijing 'bird's nest' stadium and also to smooth out the different transitions in the piece (which are a little abrupt).

Please don't feel offended by these comments - just my opinion which you can ignore or embrace as you want.

I'm just trying to be constructive and not a smartarse.

I find it remarkable that this is your very first composition (really???!!!) and even more remarkable that it seems to have been recorded in real-time in stereo to your Boss thingy!

I hope you find my comments helpful.

Cheers,


Steve

[psionic11]

Yes, I have to add that was a great inspirational piece, rainbow. Niceorchestration and build-up, nicely balanced, building at points but still reserved. Not too many musical motifs, but dang, lots of mileage out of a few good ideas and a few great sounds. Keep 'em coming!

[rainbow]

Hi Steve,

Thank you so much for the really constructive criticism because that is what I need right now. You've hit the nail right on the head and highlighted the very areas of the composition that I had reservations about and why!

I first sat down to frame loosely the format of the piece night before last and worked out chord progressions 'on the fly' and ended up with a first demo 6 minutes long which was even more repetitive,with 'clipping' occurring with more powerful passages and I'd forgotten to include your chinese percussion which was one of the original reasons for working with this theme!

Started early yesterday morning with intention of editing right down (mostly successful) and recorded both Karma & Fusion workout on stereo tracks 1 & 2 live, but stop/starting a couple of times to change patches. Then used the other stereo track to add in your chinese percussion sounds to enhance or to mask patch changing operations as well as more artistic consideration!

I had reservations about the brashness of the horns myself, and when I'd posted it I wished I could have been less impatient to share ... also I agree that the final ending lost steam after the big build and might have benefited from the tinkly arp ending going into gong and stop. All of which is a useful lesson to me ... I only do this for fun but I'd like to get more into composing and really get to grips with the recording/editing side & do the best I can. I literally have been struggling to get to grips with an effective way to get musical ideas recorded and have only in the last few weeks managed to at last get something down using my stand-alone recorder but already I appreciate the need to bring in some sort of editing software but it needs to be something very intuitive/simple and running Mac OSX.

Having said all that, I also take heart at your positive comments, and similarly those from Klaus. I very much appreciate you sharing your edit with the forum ... it is far improved in my opinion ... I need to have this capability myself ... I would love to see it posted to a wider audience but I'm such an idiot with this internet stuff ... Klaus suggested myspace and I got part way with the procedure and even got my avatar in the photo profile but I don't yet see how to upload the Beijing piece for wider sharing ... I would prefer your edited version by miles anyway!! Maybe Rob might consider putting your edited version on his you tube web page explaining it's a Hollow Sun mix ... got to be good for both Fusion & Karma & Hollow Sun also ... what do you think Rob?

The Karma is a lovely keyboard that I would never part with ... endless arps and some beautiful sounds which almost play themselves ... really you are hearing Steven Kay the programmer playing in a way ... however, the art is more in the controlling of them! It's a very 'hands on' intuitive board which very much suits my style & general approach ... only downside is the nasty plastic feel to the keys, but I've got used to that now. This board seems to figure quite a bit in other members studio postings especially in a live rig I've noticed.

Anyway, genuine thanks to you Steve for taking time out to e-mail me personally & do that lovely edit ... I am very pleased that you have posted it on the Forum ... if you can use it in any way to help promote the Fusion (& the Karma) then you certainly have my blessing and heartfelt thanks.

Cheers ... Graham

[rainbow]

Hi psionic ... thanks for your positive comments ... hope to post more in the near future ... just need to get my editing capabilities sorted.
Cheers ... Graham

[Failed Muso]

Aug 29, 2008 7:53:08 GMT rainbow said:

I only do this for fun but I'd like to get more into composing and really get to grips with the recording/editing side & do the best I can. I literally have been struggling to get to grips with an effective way to get musical ideas recorded and have only in the last few weeks managed to at last get something down using my stand-alone recorder but already I appreciate the need to bring in some sort of editing software but it needs to be something very intuitive/simple and running Mac OSX.

I would thoroughly recommend looking at something like Reaper. It is shareware and the only restriction is a 10 second nag screen at startup. If you feel like you like it, just pay them the measly $50 non commercial licence. They do a Mac version and it's not too difficult to pick up. They do have comprehensive documentation. It will allow you to focus on your composition at the same time as recording your ideas and being able to cut and paste and edit without the need for pressing buttons in a live situation. Much simpler when you are on a learning curve. Recording live onto multitrack can be cumbersome, especially if you make mistakes. Having a graphical representation on screen that you can clearly edit and rearrange in a non destructive form is an absolute boon.

I know that we have been recording onto multitracks for decades and the old school of musicians and producers would say there's nowt wrong with it, but virtually nothing gets recorded that way anymore, and with good reason. The ability to record multiple takes and fly them around in any shape or order without destroying anything in the process is invaluable.

There are really simple applications, like Garageband, which maybe worth a look, but once you have learnt that and mastered it you will be looking to stretch your wings and Garageband will not have the ability to allow you that scope of freedom.

Aug 29, 2008 7:53:08 GMT rainbow said:

Klaus suggested myspace and I got part way with the procedure and even got my avatar in the photo profile but I don't yet see how to upload the Beijing piece for wider sharing ... I would prefer your edited version by miles anyway!! Maybe Rob might consider putting your edited version on his you tube web page explaining it's a Hollow Sun mix ... got to be good for both Fusion & Karma & Hollow Sun also ... what do you think Rob?

I'd gladly host it on YouTube and I feel your frustration with MySpace. It's the most messy, cumbersome and unintuitive site ever, unless you're an HTML whizz and willing to spend time on it. I spent ages trying to find a decent yet simple page layout.

Did you open up a regular MySpace account or did you open up a Musician's one ? I can try and help you as I know that MySpace can leave you feeling mega frustrated. I have toyed with it for years, and until last week, gave up everytime because nothing was clear or simple. You might also want to consider Facebook, although they require a strange ID process before letting you post your music. Another option is Soundclick, which JP Video uses.

Take a look at my sites (in my signature) and see if there is anything there you like and I will do whatever I can to help, although for the next 6 weeks I will be bounding around the UK on business, so my access will be sporadic.

And I'm just about to listen you your track for the first time

[Hollow Sun]

Glad you like the edit.

Aug 29, 2008 7:53:08 GMT rainbow said:

I appreciate the need to bring in some sort of editing software but it needs to be something very intuitive/simple and running Mac OSX.

That edit was done in DSP-Quattro, an OSX audio editor.


Steve

[rainbow]

Rob & Steve: You're stars !! Going to spend the afternoon following up on your suggestions/links and will get back to you ... I would love to be able to have some creative freedom in this area.

Cheers for now ... Graham:)

[Shreddie]

+1 on Robs post about Reaper. I had been using Sonar for a long time (Many years ago I used to use Calkwalk Pro) but within a day or two of trying Reaper, I was converted. I'm a huge fan of it now!