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Post by hadley on Dec 9, 2008 12:20:36 GMT
I would like to configure my piano envelope so that if I strike an individual note multipe times, there is no note stealing.
This is because part of my piano playing style involves hitting a bass note hard (high velocity) and sustaining it (with the sustain pedal) over one or two measures, while also playing rhythmic riffs more softly (lower velocity) in the bass with the left hand.
When my rhythmic riff touches the same note that is being sustained, the original note dies out.
So I took the piano patch from ROM bank 1, and I set overlap release to "none", which I think is the correct way to do it. It works, but I also get pops and clicks while playing. The clip indicator doesn't come on, and the CPU is barely taxed, but I definitely get pop/click noises maybe once or twice per minute while playing.
Does anyone else notice the same problem ? Is there a solution ?
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Post by mps on Dec 9, 2008 19:30:31 GMT
I remeber Steve posting about this setting somewhere, but I can't find it. Is that set to "none" on any other piano programs?
Compare the setting with some other piano programs and see what they are set at.
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Post by Hollow Sun on Dec 10, 2008 2:04:49 GMT
I'd gradually increase OVERLAP RELEASE until it stops popping and/or clicking. I can't suggest a value as it depends on many variables. Best to suck it and see.
But if you really are hammering it hard with lots of repeated notes, voice stealing is kind of inevitable. Surprised you're getting pops and clicks though.
Something else to investigate, perhaps, is GLOBAL > SYSTEM > CPU% and selecting 'OPTIMIZE FOR POLYPHONY'. That may help without any other tweaking.
But I dunno.
Steve
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Post by hadley on Dec 10, 2008 2:16:54 GMT
OK I have found a thread about this bug at www.promusicproducts.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1203I guess the issue is a few years old and was never fixed. PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:05 pm Post subject: Reply with quote well, that is true. that won't happen if you have the overlap release set higher than "none," but that creates issues with re-striking the same note with the damper held down. i agree that they REALLY need a preventative measure like aztechjohn was saying...it's one of the major bugs right now as far as i'm concerned -jeff- _________________ |
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Post by hadley on Dec 10, 2008 2:28:22 GMT
I am working around the issue by setting the program's "Number of voices" to 16 instead of dynamic.
With the polyphony limited to 16 voices, I can have the "intelligent" voice stealing that you get when overlap is set to none, and the synth doesn't pop and click because it is only doing 16 voices.
16 voices seems ok for the piano playing I do, but it's too bad I can't set the program to 32 or 64 voices. Maybe I will do a keyboard split.
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Post by Hollow Sun on Dec 10, 2008 2:40:08 GMT
Hmmmmm....
Can't say that I have tried that (but then, I've never had the pop/click problem).
And it's not just me. My daughter is Grade 6 piano and plays her (fairly demanding) classical pieces up here in my lab on my 8HD - plenty of sustain pedal and big chords and big flurries of notes and never a problem.
Not that I am in denial because others have reported this - as they have 'the black keys are louder than the white keys' - but I (and Alice) have not experienced either of these.
Whatever sorts you out. My GLOBAL settings are optimised for 'polyphony' though. Dunno if that makes a difference.
Steve
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Post by mps on Dec 10, 2008 3:08:40 GMT
Everything that we don't understand at first is not always a bug. I have played some sttings tonight with very long release times, triggering from my Xylosynth with the sustain pedal down, up and down three octaves. No clicks. Do you have the last version of software? |
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Post by hadley on Dec 10, 2008 3:31:15 GMT
Steve,
I think you need to take a copy of the Holy Grail piano and set overlap=none, if you want to hear the clicks.
Then just hold down the sustain pedal and play a lot of notes really fast.
MPS - yes I am using the latest version of the software.
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Post by hadley on Dec 10, 2008 13:57:03 GMT
You are absolutely certain to hear a lot of terrible clicking just on the standard Holy Grail program if you do this:
Go to ROM: Preset 1 - A1 Holy Grail Grand Piano
Hold down the sustain pedal with your foot
Left hand fingers a C7 chord (or any four-note chord)
Right hand fingers a C7 chord (or any four-note chord)
Alternate between the left hand and the right hand as quickly and as loudly as you can (I can do about 6+6=12 chords per second). The clicking starts when you go above around 10 chords per second.
If you want the clicking to sound worse, use a five-note chord with each hand instead of a four-note chord.
If you want the clicking to sound really a lot worse, increase the overlap (or set it to none)
Edit -> Synth -> Envelope -> Envelope 1 (Volume)
Overlap Relase: None
You've heard it now, right ?
While the technique above is quite drastic, I find that my normal playing style (imagine Ben Folds but without the talent) results in some pops and clicks now and then - even with the standard patch.
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Post by mps on Dec 10, 2008 15:12:40 GMT
You are absolutely certain to hear a lot of terrible clicking just on the standard Holy Grail program if you do this: Go to ROM: Preset 1 - A1 Holy Grail Grand Piano Hold down the sustain pedal with your foot Left hand fingers a C7 chord (or any four-note chord) Right hand fingers a C7 chord (or any four-note chord) Alternate between the left hand and the right hand as quickly and as loudly as you can (I can do about 6+6=12 chords per second). The clicking starts when you go above around 10 chords per second. Ahh... uum... Don't do that? Problem solved. |
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Post by hadley on Dec 11, 2008 0:29:30 GMT
Ahh... uum... Don't do that? Problem solved. Mps, I agree with you that with the stock Holy Grail you have to hit an awful lot of notes before you get the popping and clicking. But I want to use the "overlap=none" feature. With this feature turned on the popping and clicking happens a lot, even when playing simple songs. I don't want to change my playing style - I just want to build a piano patch that doesn't have pops and clicks. I will do it using mix mode, using the "alternate range" function by velocity, so that notes played very hard are handled by a separate piano program that is limited to 16 voices. |
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Post by cb on Dec 11, 2008 2:46:45 GMT
My $0.02
I have noticed that the aftertouch is generating a lot of MIDI messges and I imagine that a hard hit on the keyboard will trigger these messages. Maybe disabling the aftertouch will help.
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Post by hadley on Mar 1, 2015 0:27:20 GMT
Finally fixed this problem by taking a hex editor to my .afp file and setting the number of voices to 64.
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Post by Jesse on Mar 1, 2015 15:45:10 GMT
Thanks for updating this info.
Please post the text file *.afp showing the line you edited before and after the change.
Thanks ... Jesse
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