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Post by Danimal on Nov 27, 2006 14:28:16 GMT
I've read a lot of mixed messages on the organ sounds in the Fusion. I'm a big fan of the gritty, dirty Hammond B3 sound, but have also read the the Leslie simulators are weak. Don't get mad at me, it's just what I heard.
I also know that the Hollow Sun guys did a bank with organ sounds. Has anyone done some demos with this? Or CAN someone do some demos with this? I'd love to hear what this thing can do. My Quadrasynth Plus Piano has amazingly good organs, surely the Fusion can do better.
Thanks everyone!
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Post by Hollow Sun on Nov 27, 2006 15:18:37 GMT
Hi Danimal, I was thinking of you only yesterday as I put this up: fusioneer.proboards102.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1164591245The germ of that was originally written in response to your questions about Fusion elsewhere!! Anyway... organs.... I think they're ok - no better or worse than other products' offerings. Maybe not 100%, totally authentic and maybe not to the tastes of a true Hammond afficianado but perfectly servicable when in a mix (IMO). I've done a few B3s in the various HS banks and they sound pretty good to my ears (and I've had some good feedback on them from users) but the presets also contain some good ones (again IMO). The B3s I did were converted from 'Nostalgia' I did for Zero-G (which has won almost nothing but 5-star awards) and some reviews even commented on the quality of the B3s so, what can I say? Again, there are mixed feelings about Fusion's Leslie simulation but again, no better or worse than others I have heard (other than dedicated simulators). Again, perfectly servicable IMO. The trouble is that, like pianos, organs (especially tonewheels) can be very subjective and nothing but the real thing will satisfy a true tonewheel afficianado (much like nothing but the real thing with all their mechanical problems will satisfy true Tron fanatics!). Even people who are happy with organ samples will often route their sampler through a real Leslie or other rotary speaker system because that sound is very difficult to capture absolutely accurately as well. I dunno - I think the organs in Fusion are generally fine (they suit me well enough). Steve |
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Post by Danimal on Nov 27, 2006 15:45:54 GMT
The germ of that was originally written in response to your questions about Fusion elsewhere!! Hey Steve, As I was reading that this morning I noticed it sounded very familiar, especially the "cul-de-sac" part.  When I was a kid my dad had a Hammond. I'd put a million dollars that says it wasn't a B3, but it sounded good. And I love that dirty, gritty (distorted?) B3 sound. I can get that pretty good with my E-Synth, but thought perhaps the Fusion could go one step further (E-Synth has no Leslie simulator). I don't care about accuracy so much as a really cool sound. I was just wondering if anyone had done a demo, maybe just running through the various organ sounds, ESPECIALLY the Hollow Sun ones |
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Post by markone on Nov 27, 2006 23:35:12 GMT
It depends what you want. I love hammonds. I would love to have the real deal, I have sample libraries of them coming out of my hard drive. I reckon a lot of the hammonds on the Fusion are brilliant. many emulate the correct touch response on the percussion samples as well (those that have them) My personal view is that they are a little polite. Most are sampled it appears from pretty good condition instruments and therefore the raw samples are pretty clean, harmonically speaking. They also don't have much key click (not talking percussion, here, I mean that spit when a hammond key is pressed and makes with those 9 contacts slightly imperfectly) For jazz and even quite a lot of rock that is fine. I have found the Fusion hammonds more than serviceable. The leslie sim too is pretty good. But, if you want that raw Keith Emerson sound, at the moment the fusion doesn't have it (If Alesis ever release the Q card collection and the sample bank from the QS, it will, there are some KE C3 samples there) to emulate that real raw rock hammond sound you need to sample a console that is a little hazy (where there is breakthrough from adjacent tonewheels when you press a note) where the click is accented a fair bit (Emo did this by compressing the f*** out of the dry signal with a marshall valve head) Then when you overdrive the leslie it just pulls out all this character in spades and is wonderful. I had a go at this and got maybe 60% there with my "Dirty Hammond" You can hear it on this song www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=306035&songID=4449159All the sounds are stock fusion or hollow sun apart from the hammond which I sampled from an old EMU board that had the kind of character I was after in the Hammond samples. |
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Post by Hollow Sun on Nov 28, 2006 1:05:40 GMT
My personal view is that they are a little polite. Most are sampled it appears from pretty good condition instruments and therefore the raw samples are pretty clean, harmonically speaking. They also don't have much key click (not talking percussion, here, I mean that spit when a hammond key is pressed and makes with those 9 contacts slightly imperfectly) It is true that the organs used are serviced and/or re-conditioned. The reason being that the sound designer wants/needs/requires as 'clean' a signal as possible for any number of reasons - signal to noise ratio (i.e. no hiss or mains hum, etc.), no bleed from the other tonewheels or adjacent keys (makes looping a nightmare .. if not impossible ... plus that 'bleed' gets transposed if you don't take a sample for each and every note ... which is impractical). I can guarantee you that if I sampled a 'dirty' Hammond, it would all be round the playground pretty quickly that Fusion's organ samples are noisy and the loops click making them unusable  As it is, the 'clean' samples can at least be 'dirtied up' with judicious use of some on-board distortion and/or amp and cab sim with some Leslie. Granted, maybe not the honky growl of 'the real thing' but.....! Here's a thought towards some authenticity..... Use Fusion's AUX outs to feed a Marshall valve top driving a rotary speaker and re-program all the organ sounds to appear at those outputs (PROGRAM > OUTPUT > OUTPUT BUS). Now, whenever you select an organ sound, it will automatically go out through the AUX outs to your organ amplification 'filth stack'. Would work live if you're really after 'that sound'. Would work in the studio too (but you'd have to mic up the rotary speaker to record it of course). The same could be done in MIX and SONG modes - assign the organ part to the AUX outs feeding your Marshall/Leslie. Of course, you wouldn't have the non-linear intermodulations of the tonewheel bleed screwing with the amp/speaker distortion (because of the clean, isolated samples) but I reckon you'd be be damned close. In fact, veering off topic slightly, this could be used in other applications. Do something similar with filth guitars through a Pod or Marshall stack or if you want a totally authentic Clav and waa waa pedal .... or electric piano through a genuine Mutron BiPhase, etc.. Steve |
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Post by Danimal on Nov 28, 2006 15:14:58 GMT
Cool sound and great song! Not quite that dirty, raw sound you mention, but definitely getting there. I'd imagine with the sounds on the Fusion (especially Hollow Sun), I could edit in some effects to give me what I want, is that right? |
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Post by jbrannon7 on Dec 4, 2006 21:52:53 GMT
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